Iraq: Fr. Pascual Chavez:

Coming Out of War with an Efficacious Peace Plan

According to the Rector Major of the Salesians times are difficult but it is still important to read the signs of the times and open a true and profound dialog with the "new global" and to coordinate it to get the best results.

Rome (Italy), 17 April (VID) - The war in Iraq has upset the rules of the

world and opened a difficult period for the international community. For

this reason it is important that religious begin an intense dialog with the

new globalization ideologies, deciding with determination to continue in line with "Pacem in Terris" and moving toward an ever more coordinated and synergic collaboration to make their Christian witness and the educative message to young people more credible and eloquent.

These are some of the basic ideas discussed in an interview with Fr. Pascual Chavez, Rector Major of the Salesians of Don Bosco and first non-Italian successor of Don Bosco a year after his election. Fr. Chavez was born in Mexico.

He underlines in particular the change needed in this stage of history when it is important to emphasize peace and a formational process, to begin with the Salesians, which is new and appropriate.

With the eyes of someone from the Third World

How do you evaluate with the eyes of a person from the Third World the

doctrine of preventive war and the predominance of a sole superpower?

"Looking at the present world situation with the eyes of people from the

Third World, the present administration of the United States is decidedly a superpower but an overbearing superpower. The United States government gives the unpleasant impression, even contrary to the democratic sentiments of many citizens, that it is the custodian of a world order for its own purposes and use. As a person coming from Mexico - but I think this may be true of millions of people in the world - I ask myself who appointed or entrusted this role of universal moderator to the United States when there is the United Nations which can better guarantee democratic solutions and be more attentive to cultural pluralism which fortunately is still wide spread in the world. Without a doubt there is no counter balance in the world to the one and only American superpower and that creates the real danger of its acting unilaterally in international relationships when there is not that degree of self-discipline limiting and properly directing its decisions commensurate with its power. The situation was different when the Soviet Union existed as a counter weight. At present we are experiencing the problem of a hegemony which wants to control everything. For this reason the existence of a Europe which is ever more united is an advantage and a healthy balance for the world. I see and feel many anti-American reactions. The atrocities committed by governments and persons like Saddam Hussein cannot be denied but neither can the responsibility of the American rearmament race be ignored since they possess and use arms of mass destruction and persist to uphold capital

punishment and do everything to favor their own business interests. There are in existence conventions and international institutions which are totally legitimate which should be valid for all. The necessary changes and updating of these institutions would make them better represent the dignity of all peoples and would not punish and exclude cultures and interests different from the major powers".

The conflict in Iraq and especially the theory of the new order supported by the United States government, outside the context of the United Nations has profoundly changed the world scene in respect to a year ago when you were elected successor to Don Bosco. Are you unhappy about these changes?

This new scene was not a compete surprise. I had already come out against the ideas of Fukuyama on the end of history and his support of economic liberalism and the end of the third-worldism. He was talking about reconstructing the cake of prime resources even before redistributing it. It seemed even then to be the language of a cynic. If it were that way - without considering that the cake is already divided, 80% of the world's population use only 20% of the resources while a restricted minority consumes 80% of the whole cake and is concerned about the future where such a high percentage does not seemed to be guaranteed - we would have to accept the fact that millions of persons would die before the new cake would be ready and without any guarantee whatsoever of how, among whom and by whom it would be divided.

History written only by the winner makes me uneasy. September 11, 2001 was without a doubt the beginning of a new chapter of history, but the greater history continues. At the vigil of 2000 it seemed to me out of place to toast with champagne the rosy future of the world. We were a bit ingenuous to think that the fall of the Berlin wall and the end of the U.S.S.R. would automatically bring a better world.

Do you think Religious Men and Women stood up and were counted out of a strong conviction or only because of their passive obedience to the Pope against the war in Iraq?

In the face of such a serious and surprising war as the one that destroyed Iraq, gravely testing physical life and the conscience of that people, I am not able to judge the individual deep convictions of the confreres of my Congregation, and much less those of other men or women religious.

However I think, from that which I see and hear that there was and there remains a general repudiation of this conflict which, in the light of public opinion, appears irrational because not all the diplomatic possibilities were tried. It was seen as illegal because not sanctioned by the United Nations through the Security Council and immoral because it was arbitrary to declare a preventive war -- an extremely bad precedent for a world jungle where the right of force prevails and the force of law.

I do not believe, however, that religious backed the Pope's position out of

passive obedience, but because of an increasing consciousness of the problems connected to globalization. I must say however that the Holy Father was the clearest, most decisive, most courageous, most honest, and most disinterested voice in promoting peace and in desiring to keep the specter of war far away. To be in his company was important in giving an image of a Church finally united against the war.

How are the Salesians and other educational Congregations living this

situation?

The Salesian in the world are for different reasons live in various contexts of violence and death. We work in a variety of situations and stand with the people and thus experience the consequences of the information monopoly which minimizes the existence of other conflicts but exalts the echo of the American wars. But people fight and die in many parts of the world. The Salesians seek to stay near their confreres who live in some very difficult situations struggling for survival and thus I believe that we are very sensitive to what is going on. Our internal news agency, ANS, documents these situations of suffering quickly and keeps the Congregation informed. But I must also say that there is not a monolithic way in which Salesian see or live these situations.

The change of the Magisterium on peace strongly emphasizing "Pacem in Terris" opens a new way for Christians to contribute to building a just and peaceful world. Are there changes foreseen in the way Religious will be educated for peace, given that in the past war was seen in a different way depending on whether one was from the first or third world?

The awareness of living in a world that on one side is more "globalized" and from the other seems more divided by cultural, social, economic, political, and religious diversity and which presents new challenges to formation, the principal one being to educate to "interculturation", is in my opinion the key to the solution of the difficult problem of harmonizing the unity of humanity with the diversity of peoples that are part of it. It implies pedagogy which accepts differences, readiness for dialog and reciprocity, solidarity, and peace. This is possible to the degree that we discover that there are transcultural values, valid everywhere and which should help religious to become men and women of communion. As the Pope has reminded us in "Vita Consacrata" (51), multicultural and international communities in many parts of the world are meaningful witnesses and aids in teaching us a sense of communion among peoples, races and cultures.

How do see the centrality of the Gospel of peace affecting the ecumenical and interreligious dialog, regarding future religious?

The challenges of the formation of Religious come from the new world order being developed, from the demanding cultural context, and from tendencies that are also in the Church. The mobility of the our communities, the plurality of their composition obliges us to renew and reinforce the very way of living and organizing fraternal life. The central issues seem to be education to dialog, the ability to positively deal with conflict, the sharing of fundamental values in diversity of responsibility and self-actualization. Naturally the culture of communion has to translate into ecumenical and interreligious dialog. Today evangelization cannot be done without respecting cultural values, whose soul is religion. The Church, which requires Christian witness, cannot be implanted without dialog with other Christian confessions and other religions. But not as a tactical approach but through conviction of the values that are in play. This does not imply however that the "mission ad gentes", even in the big cities of the first world, must not be part of the plan. Simply said the mission must be "enculturated" - aware of its cultural setting.

Is it compatible to be good religious and for peace but not always against war?

In principle I would say no. The values of the Gospel which religious profess publicly have as a basis, meaning and purpose, the love of others as Jesus loved us. It becomes incompatible to profess one thing and at the same times approve the opposite. War is always an aberration, that works against humanity, not only through the loss of life for numerous persons, but also because it impedes development and democracy, it renders those fighting the war inhuman and takes away the human dignity of the many victims who are oppressed by it. I think that being for peace but not always against war can be seen as an intermediate step in the journey of conversion toward Christian love that has as natural component non-violence. It is a difficult journey but a necessary one if we do not want to be in other unwanted conflicts in the future discussing whether it is a just or unjust war, legitimate or illegal. War is always a regression. But even in this case, at least at the level of the individual, the example of Jesus is still valid, a victim of injustice and yet never a killer. It is a hard lesson to learn the lesson of winning evil with good.

During this year under your guidance, there has been more attention given to the Sisters and the new global movement than to the men religious. Why has the progress in this area with the Sisters been faster while with the men religious there has been a certain prudence?

I do not believe that I have any reason to look at the Salesian world

situation and to think that the Sister are more involved in the new global movement than the male religious. I can say that the Sisters Daughters of Mary Helper have moved in this direction with decisiveness and with explicit aims. But at the same time it seems fair to recognize that there are many men religious, even Salesians, against the present model of globalization. There are very many religious that work - even if they are not public about it - for the creation of an alternative world, more livable for all through education and the promotion of experiences of communion and sharing.

Do you think it is necessary to distrust the new global movement or that it may be the new context which facilitates evangelization and the educational proposal which is supported by Christianity?

It is not a good idea to baptize a movement that was not begun specifically for religious reasons. Those who work in this area have been more or less active in various fields from ecologists, pacificists, feminists, social volunteer groups, political parties of the left or central left, religious, all the way to anarchists. I would say therefore that it is not necessarily a context that will per se facilitate evangelization. Just think of how many are with this movement or even question it or are against it and how many work with or with the movement for non-religious reasons. I believe that it is above all to consider the alternative cultural value of the movement and to underscore them as possible area of solidarity and policy in the service of persons. It is another thing to say that the movement is in itself a facilitator of evangelization. What I recognize and affirm is that this new global movement has many elements in accord with the Gospel and they have be translated into educational programs. Regarding the educational and mission plans it seems wise to emphasize these elements more than other aspects.

There are many signs of death in the world than trouble young people.

Can you indicate some sign of hope for a new world which has been born beginning from Latin America?

In Latin America I found three great signs of something new that can become dynamic way for transformation: 1) the enculturated presence among the indigenous people, both of Amazon region and of the Andes, which has opened the way in some cases to creating Federations of indigenous people, securing in this way not only their cultural identity but also their very future. This is very important human value. 2) the network of works for street children begun in Colombia and in Brazil, which has brought about the signing a law on the rights of these street children, which has been extended to all of Latin America, Africa and Asia, 3) the sensitivity and initiative for children who drop out of the official school system by setting up informal schools to teach work skills.

If the consecrated life would adopt a point of view more like that of the Third World, what could you change in your Congregation and your mission?

I think it could recapture its freshness, it vigor, its boldness, its simplicity of origin, the power of its fraternity and the meaningfulness of

its presence and action. It often happens that history provokes in institutions what the years produce in the human person: more experience and less energy, more structure and less creativity, more security and less boldness, more social relevance and less Gospel identity. It would be ideal to have a balance of all these factors.

The future of Salesians and other Religious is the results of innovative formation.

You have led an important educational Congregation for a year. Is it easier and more difficult to educate the youth of today and why?

Those who work directly in the area of education, especially formal education, recognize that today education has become more difficult. The context of education has been complete changed. We have gone from a strong unified, monolithic model to one that is clearly fragmented, beginning with the family, which should continue to be the first and principal place of education. We are in fact working with a man and a woman who are culturally different, more capable in certain areas and incapable in others, more sensitive toward certain values and more reluctant in accepting others.

Educational structures have multiplied, among which the most incisive is the world of internet. At the same time, as a Salesian, I can assure you that the most vital and felt needs of young people are the same -- the desire for happiness, belonging, being listened to, esteemed, becoming adults as a significant point of reference - all these are an important part of their effort to grow as human beings and as Christians.

After a year's experience in governing the Salesians do you think that your Congregation is still vital in spreading the charism of your founder or do you fear the first signs of decline?

The Salesian Congregation seem alive to me. In Asia and Africa there is great growth and as a whole numerically stable. In Latin America there is much dynamism, life, and future. Europe is the area of the world more in crisis and at the same time where a profound rethinking is taking place on how to respond to the present secularized well-to-do context. We are trying to understand how to be meaningful where the majority of the people live in luxury and at the same time experience demographic change with a great influx of immigrants. It is important to clarify that it will not be the restrictive laws of European governments that will stop the immigrants because immigration will continue until there are no more countries living in misery. For the immigrants to die of hunger in one's own country or on the coast of the land of their dreams does not change anything. I heard the regional superior of Holland where there are no vocations say that he is convinced that in the future there certainly will be vocations but they will have another face. It is not time for the end of the Salesian charism since there still are various challenges which are often unrecognized that must be confronted.

To confront what is new do you think that the present formation of Salesians is sufficient?

Even before I had been called to fulfill this responsibility, I think it necessary to revise our Ratio Studiorum - Formation Program. It is not only a problem of what is in the Ratio. The departure point has changed. We now have candidates for the consecrated life and the Salesian life completely different from those of the past. It is not enough now to set up a house of formation which in the past guaranteed good quality results. Now the whole situation has changed. Now a whole process of personal assimilation of values is necessary and to reach that objective the location or atmosphere is not the only thing in question. We used to take care and watch over the children at one time. Now we must learn to work together and be animators.

Personally I believe very much that formation guarantees the future. I requested a map of the houses of formation, their condition, the quality of the formation program, the preparation of the directors of formation, the intellectual level expected of the candidates. You cannot expect that each Salesian Provincial will resolve all the formation problems by himself. It is important to decide what type of Salesian you want to form for the times in which we live and those of the future.

Do you have a plan to suggest to increase collaboration in the consecrated life in the area of witness and that of mission?

We have been emphasizing this inside the Salesian Family which is made of more than twenty branches of consecrated men and women, lay people inviting them to work together in the area of the Salesian Youth Movement, of the Oratory and in youth centers, in the area of vocation promotion, volunteer groups and the missions. In order to respect the autonomy of each group, it is necessary to promote cooperation through concrete projects especially at the local level.

At the level of the consecrated life, there are a number of things being done through the Union of Superiors General. We could perhaps increase cooperation in the area of finances, formation, education, enculturation and particularly in social communications.

This is why Religious continue to work in countries unjustly defined as "rogue States"

Why do Religious Congregations continue to work and consolidate in many countries that according to the political philosophy of Bush, which dominates the West now, are defined as "rogue States or axis of evil"? Is the consecrated life a little less western and less convinced of its cultural superiority as it was in the past?

I think that in the West, above all in the rich nations, there are a number of factors that are decidedly working against the consecrated life: the demographic decrease (if there are not children for civil society, certainly there will not be any for the Church); secularism which makes the religious message more difficult to present and to respond to; the high state of well-being that makes life easy and makes it hard for anyone to go against the current and renounce the good life and sacrifice to help others when the State is seem to supplying all the services of religious (schools, hospitals, etc.).

On the other side there are elements that favor the consecrated life: the population is mainly young and the basic culture is still very religious, there is much poverty and as a result many feel the need to help those less fortunate. It is also true that the State may not have all the resources to resolve all the problems of the poor and needy.

It seems, therefore, that the consecrated life is accepted much more in poor countries. This also says that in the rich countries the consecrated life has another function: to be a visible and credible sign, able to be read by a godless society, that lives as if He did not exist. This can be done to the degree that it is truly contra cultural, with a Gospel identity strongly centered on God, witnesses of communion and totally dedicated to others.

Let me say that it does not seem to me to be wise under either a political or cultural point of view, nor justifiable under a Christian point of view to follow a policy that tends to discriminate among countries of the world to the degree that they either accept or oppose our culture and our interests. Politics of dominion or messianic politicians always move humanity into dark periods of history. To speak of 'rogue States' is not part of the Church's tradition which has be sent to proclaim to all peoples the Gospel of liberation and salvation. Men and women religious do not do anything out of the ordinary that is not part of the Gospel to live and walk in solidarity with the people of very nation, especially the poor and those in difficulty.

You were recently in the Holy Land. Were you able to an idea of the situation there?

There are two different worlds: in the area controlled by Israel there does

not seem to be a war going on. You see the problem clearly when you have to go through a check point. There are no houses and you see the other side of the coin. I visited Bethlehem and Cremisan. It am proud of what the Salesian are doing for the people of Bethlehem with their "House of Bread" and I hope that they can continue to do it. It is rather difficult under these conditions to contribute to the educational development of the young in the presence of Israeli and Intifada control.

Also for the Holy Land we could use the courage of a turn in history toward peace which until now has been late in coming.

[Courtesy of Vidimus Dominum]